Because It Is Holy?

Beth has been reading Plato.  She's been taking the book with her every day to her "cloistered" school and when there is free time or during lunch she reads Plato.  She mentioned a few quotes from the book the other day while we were in the van.  One was something about the nature of an object carried...can't quite remember the gist of it...and can't really make sense of it from what I've read online. 

The other quote she mentioned stuck with me and is, in a way, a key factor in the consideration of the POE.

"Is what is holy holy because the gods approve it, or do they approve it because it is holy?"

Make gods singular and it is a question that can be easily transferred to Christianity and to our view of scripture and of God.  It is actually an age old question (as evidenced by Plato, an ancient Greek philosopher, including it in his writings) And it is a question that I have discussed on message boards..and in real life... more than once when the topic turned to the Old Testament and the God (supposedly) portrayed therein; the God who tortured Job, commanded jihad, demanded sacrificial blood sacrifices, and orchestrated penal substitutionary atonement. 

In the book Good Ideas from Questionable Christians and Outright Pagans, the chapter entitled, Why Ask Why?, deals with the Euthyphro and Theaetetus.  These compositions contain dialogues, recorded by Plato, between his teacher, Socrates, and the namesakes of both writings, Euthyphro and Theaetetus. 

In this post, we will deal with the Euthyphro, the book Beth is reading and the source of the "what is holy" quote above. 

In the"Good Ideas" book, there is an interesting discussion about the Socratic Method, defined by Wikipedia as:

....a form of philosophical inquiry in which the questioner explores the implications of others' positions, to stimulate rational thinking and illuminate ideas. This dialectical method often involves an oppositional discussion in which the defense of one point of view is pitted against another; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, strengthening the inquirer's own point.

Hmmmm....sounds like a few conversations I've been involved in.  Anyway....the book goes on to say:

The dialogical method reminds Socrates that the quest for truth is an on-going process and that he should be open to any source—friend, stranger or opponent—who might bring him closer to the best possible answers.

Of the questions posed in the dialouges this book points out that:

Not only are these still open questions, many answers considered in these two dialogues twenty five hundred years ago still exist in some form today. Thus, we get a chance to see how ideas about these basic questions hold up under Socrates’ scrutiny and think through our own views on these topics.

And since this post that I thought would be a short little ditty, has turned into more of a thesis, I will continue these ponderings in another post.  In closing, a quote by Llyod Alexander:

   “We learn more by looking for the answer to a question and not finding it than we do from learning the answer itself.”  

Still looking.....

 

Whence Then is Evil?

Beth and I have had a few conversations lately.  About the T-shirt, about some of the things that went on this summer....even some spiritual discussions.  The other night at dinner she told me that she wore the T-shirt to get people to think.  It works. 

Like Mother, like daughter.  I write here on this blog to get people (including myself) to think.  She scrawls words on a T-shirt or on a poster board...or, at her Dad's, she is even allowed to scrawl words and paint eclectic pictures on her bedroom wall. 

It is clear Beth has a problem with the way God runs his creation.  I think her issue with God is an old one and has been around a lot longer than the nearly 17 years she has been alive.  It has dogged Christians and atheists alike.  I was very active on a yahoo e-list a few years ago where we discussed it often and thoroughly.  Enough that we dubbed it with a nickname...

The POE

The Problem of Evil. 

How do you get around the problem of evil?  How do you come to terms with it?  How do you deal with it, explain it, understand it, live with it?  How do you forgive God for it? The following three statements are true..but they don't add up.

There is a God. 

He is good.

Evil and suffering exist.

Or how about the way an ancient Greek philosopher named Epicurus, worded the quandary...

"Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?"

I know the paradox so well.  I dealt with these questions myself for a long time. I told her this morning on our drive to school that for about five (recent) years, I was oftentimes totally ticked off at God. Between the POE, substitutionary atonement and my struggles with free will/predetermination, my relationship with God was very strained. For several years I was barely on speaking terms with him.  I read about him...talked about him...thought about him, but rarely talked to him.  When I did talk to him, all of my conversations with him were guarded, I didn't trust him, expected the worst from his hand. I had a major chip on my shoulder/axe to grind/bone to pick. I was pissed. 

But unlike Beth, I could not just discount his existence.  Believe me, there were times that I would have if I could have.  But, I couldn't write him off or explain him away as someone's fantasy. I KNEW he existed.  One day about ten years ago, he "touched" me..like a tap on the shoulder accompanied by a whisper in my ear that said "See, I really am here."  After that there was no way to declare him dead.  It was just not an option. 

Did I find the answer to the POE riddle, the key to the lock, the missing piece of the puzzle, the explanation that made it all fit.  Nope. But I am still looking...

Your God Is Dead 2

Sometime way back in August, I wrote a post about the T-shirt Beth made...the one that declared in big graffiti letters "YOUR GOD IS DEAD." A few weeks ago, she wore the shirt to school.  For some reason, on that particular day it really pissed me off and we had some words on the way to school. Well, in actuality, the only spoken words came from me.  She was mainly sullen and silent.  After I got over being pissed, I came to the conclusion that it was partly anger at God...and partly "up yours" defiance...with the added bonus of getting attention.

She wore the shirt on an after school walk downtown to the library.  She wrote about it later on her myspace blog....and about a confrontation she had with a man who stopped to defend God.  The following Sunday, I found out he wasn't the only one who noticed the shirt.  The new pastor at the UM church we go to noticed too...and she got attention all right.  She made the sermon the following Sunday at all three sermons!!!  About six hundred people heard about the girl in the Your God Is Dead T-shirt.

The sermon was about "Who is Jesus to you?" based on the scripture when Jesus asked Peter "Who do people say I am?" "Who do you say I am?"  Peter, of course, answered, "Thou art the Christ, the son of the Living God". 

Please note the "Living God" portion of this scripture because that was the springboard for his sermon illustration.  To my surprise, the sermon illustration was Beth! He began his story by telling us about "the other day, when he was driving home."  And how he saw a girl walking down Market Street....wearing a T-shirt.....and that he could not believe his eyes...nor could he believe what the T-shirt proclaimed in bright red and black letters.

Emily and I looked at each other.  OMG, we knew where he was going with this.  Yep...the T-shirt said, "YOUR GOD IS DEAD."  He said he drove a few blocks toward home but decided to turn around and go back to talk to her.  At this point, I thought he was the guy she wrote about on her blog but he went on to say that by the time he got back to where he saw her last, she had disappeared. He continued, telling us that he could not imagine how sad and lonely that poor girl's life must be to wear a T-shirt that not only proclaimed that her God is dead but that "YOUR" God is dead too.  

Of course, Em and I knew the identity of the mystery girl. And so did the two youth leaders Emily is so close to. The leaders who, at one time not that long ago, Beth was close to as well. 

At the conclusion of the service, Spencer (youth leader) asked if he could say something to the congregation.

"If you are here and do not know who Jesus is, ask one of us...ask the person who brought you...ask the pastor." 

He went on to talk about "being Christ" to someone...and then he said,

"Because, that girl in the T-shirt--I know that girl. She's been to our home...she's been to our church." The implication sort of hung in the air that perhaps, as a church, they had failed to reach the girl in the "YOUR GOD IS DEAD" T-shirt .

By that time, I was crying.  The girl sitting with Em (who used to be best friends with Beth) knew about the shirt and I leaned over and whispered in her Mom's ear, "That was Beth." She gasped a little.  She knows Beth and likes Beth. She was there when Beth had that "experience with the Lord" at Impact.  She has had a lot of trouble with one of her kids and is empathetic and kind. 

I'm guessing the pastor thought it was a pretty safe bet that nobody listening to his sermon knew the girl...and definitely nobody listening to his sermon had actually given birth to her.  As I mentioned earlier, he is a new pastor and my attendance is sporadic at best.  He probably thought her parents were sleeping off Saturday night's hangover and definitely not sitting in his new sanctuary.  (It was the consecration of the newly remodeled sanctuary....big crowd Sunday) 

There were refreshments after the service, but I left right away.  Later that day, I wrote him an email introducing myself as the mother of the girl in the T-shirt.  I let him know that my other daughter, Emily, is very active in the church and in the youth group.  She is part of the youth leadership committee etc.  He wrote back today and said he would pray for Beth. 

Just another one of life's interesting, ironic, you never know who might be listening moments. 

Guilty...

When I signed onto my computer this morning, one of the first headlines I noticed on my AOL home page was about OJ Simpson's verdict. He was found guilty of kidnapping, armed robbery and ten other assorted charges, ironically THIRTEEN YEARS TO THE DAY of his acquittal of the murder of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman. There are all kinds of articles on the internet about his guilt but one of the most eclectic articles has to be HOW EVIDENCE AGAINST LUCIFER AND OJ HAS BEEN DISMISSED. It is written by Mike Clute of God's Last Call Ministries.

Mike Clute is a former (?) 7th Day Adventist pastor who believes the god who was responsible for the horrendous things done in the OT was satan and not the one true almighty God...the God we whose expressed image we see in Jesus. When I explored the many articles at his site a while back, there were many of his writings I agreed with but not all...and one must, I think, read with discernment and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. With the enlightenment of some of the teachings of Eckhart Tolle, I'm not sure if I would disagree with more of his beliefs or not. He is very much into end times prophecy and seems to have a dualistic point of view. God vs. Satan. I still have not formed a definitive opinion on whether or not satan is an actual being or the manifestation of the carnal mind/egoic mind/painbody. It has been awhile since I've read there but when I saw the OJ verdict, the article I've linked to came to mind.

I revisited the article this morning. He attributes OJ's innocent verdict to the same unwillingness of many people to see the truth of the evidence about God and Satan and who is responsible for what. Even though the article is slanted toward supporting his point of view spiritually, it is filled with facts from the trial and excerpts from many of the books written on the subject. It is an easy read.

As I was reading the article again this morning, a statement I probably skimmed over the first time stood out as if it had been written in bold print, size 20 font. It was a remark reportedly made by Marsha Clark at the end of the trial...after the innocent verdict. Mike Clute writes:

I really liked Clark's comments about the verdict and its aftermath. She realized "I'm still here." She wanted everyone to see that she had put herself through "hell" for the right thing. "I had to believe that suffering was part of something bigger. Justice, like the will of God, doesn't always manifest itself on the spur of the moment. It doesn't always come when you think it should. You just gotta wait it out."

Wow....

He Stoops Down....

Another excerpt from the Shack has got me thinking. I know The Shack is a work of fiction, but there is some pretty deep theology going on there in the guise of a story. I am thinking about the conversation at dinner the first night Mack is there at the shack. Jesus, Sarayu and Papa are asking Mack all about his children, his wife, his friends....
Suddenly Mack blurts out what appears to him as "obvious"...."you know everything I am telling you don't you?"
Sarayu explains:

“We have limited ourselves out of respect for you. We are not bringing to mind, as it were, our knowledge of your children. As we are listening to you, it is as if this is the first time we have known about them, and we take great delight in seeing them through your eyes.”

Papa also talks about when "they spoke themselves into human existence as the Son of God they became fully human and embraced all the limitations that entailed"
This reminds me of a verse in Psalms....18:35. The NCV renders it:

You stoop down to make me great.

And God did indeed stoop when he chose to join us here in this earthly realm...Immanuel....God With Us.

Grace Rarely Makes Sense....

Just this past weekend, I started to read The Shack. (yes, I'm probably one of the few remaining people on the planet who hasn't already read the Shack) In the introduction, a quote jumped out at me.

I suppose since most of our hurts come through relationships, so will our healing and I know that grace rarely makes sense for those looking in from the outside.

That quote has come to mind more than once lately; and with it the pondering of how it applies to my life and the relationships. For starters, exactly what is it? Ninja Words...(A really fast dictionary... fast like a ninja) defines grace as:

free and undeserved favour, especially of God. Unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification.

I have also heard grace defined as "unmerited favor." For this post, that is the definition we'll go with....

I found a few quotes on grace that fit this definition.

Grace is free sovereign favor to the ill-deserving.
Benjamin B Warfield

“God is no faultfinder, always looking for things to condemn in us. He estimates us at our best, not our worst.”

So is that how grace works? By looking beyond what we see smack dab in front of us and envisioning the person as they could be...as they will be...when our Father is finished with them we can somehow...sometimes..bring out those very qualities. Once a person is caught in that downward spiral, sometimes grace...unmerited favor...is the way to stop the descent. In a recent email, my dear friend annie said

every masterpiece looks like crap when it's still in progress :)

During certain periods in everyone's life, because the masterpiece is in progress, everything looks like crap.

"Just keep telling her who she is." was a bit of advice given to me about my wayward daughter. I wish I could say that my faith never wavered, and that I always built her up instead of tearing her down...but that would not be the truth. I guess I am just a masterpiece in the works as well...

I came upon a poem called St. Francis and the Sow by Galway Kinnell. Below is an excerpt that seems to fit

....though sometimes it is necessary
to reteach a thing its loveliness,
to put a hand on its brow
of the flower
and retell it in words and in touch
it is lovely
until it flowers again from within

The Voice of Truth...

In a post on EU, my friend annie said:

"Truth sets us free. if we can't deceive ourselves, it's harder to go back to the old behaviors."

One of the things I like about Eckhart's teachings is that they are clear cut and precise...which makes it more difficult to deceive ourselves.

When he speaks of truth and freedom in A New Earth he says:

The underlying emotion that drives all the activity of the ego is fear. The fear of being nobody, the fear of nonexistence, the fear of death. All of its activities are ultimately designed to eliminate this fear, but the most the ego can ever do is to cover it up temporarily with an intimate relationship, a new possession, or winning at this or that. Illusion will never satisfy you. Only the truth of who you are, if realized, will set you free.

Once you realize and accept that all structures (forms) are unstable, even the seemingly solid material ones, peace arises within you. This is because the recognition of the impermanence of all forms awakens you to the dimension of the formless within yourself, that which is beyond death. Jesus called it eternal life.

Time and time again, I find that Eckhart's teachings simply mirror the words of Jesus. About eternal life Jesus said:

And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

About truth Jesus said:

"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

I am the way, the truth, and the life.
Jesus Christ

The Voice of Truth...Casting Crowns expresses it this way: