Friday, August 10, 2007

Free Will vs. Total Determinism

On Emerging Universalist, we have been discussing free will vs. determinism. I’m not really even sure how it came up as a topic except that there has been a flurry of posts. I don’t think there is anyone in our group of “heretics” who believes in total determinism. Someone coined the phrase “detourminist”to sum up what we believe. A newcomer to our group mentioned she thinks we have free will ….which is of course, limited to our circumstances etc. but not sovereign will….which belongs to God alone. I really liked that distinction.

My friend Brian posted urging me to “let it go.” He has been on lists with me for several years and knows the turmoil this doctrine has caused me. Not the doctrine….but my double mindedness about it. I did my brief stint in the total determinist camp….and was there long enough to see that there is some logic behind it. Plus it is my husband’s pet doctrine. You would be amazed how that colors everything…..everything. From prayer to reading the Bible, to everyday discussions….everything is colored by how you view this doctrine. I get frustrated because I think it makes God out to be a liar, a manipulator, an overly anxious “jewish” mother. It just violates so many principals and turns God into a “do as I say and not as I do” kind of deity….and is indeed a dark blotch on his holy character much like eternal torment and penal substitution. Keith thinks that if God does not control even one small detail, the universe will go into runaway mode, the cosmos will be knocked off their orbits and chaos will reign.

In Brian’s very wise post to me, he also listed the criteria he uses to determine a doctrine’s validity. I thought they were very good standards to apply so I list them below:

Reason, Scripture, Tradition and Inner Knowing

Reason is obvious. So many of us discard rational thinking when accepting certain doctrines of standard Christianity….and not so standard Christianity. God is not an irrational God. To me, if it does not make a lick of sense in the here and now, it is doubtful that in the sweet bye and bye it’s going to make any more sense. Of course, God’s thoughts are not our thoughts and all that stuff….and he cannot be understood by our little pea brains, yet if a doctrine flies in the face of reason, (ET comes to mind) we should seriously reconsider its validity.







Scripture: The B…I…B….L…E, yes that’s the book for me. I love scripture. I love the Bible. I think it is one of the most important ways God’s communicates with his children. Lynn Hiles sometimes says that “God breathed on a verse” in a new way. Although they are words written on a page, I think the Holy Spirit can bring them to life in our hearts and our lives when he “breathes on them”….however I do not think everything in the Bible was authored by God. Even Paul points out certain passages that are not inspired but are rather his own advice. I am not so sure others who wrote were as in tune as Paul was to what God was actually saying. I filter scripture through Jesus. Four gospels, four chances to get it right, four chances to see the invisible God in the expressed image of Jesus. “If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the father.” If it does not fit with the character and nature Jesus displayed in his time here on earth, I have no problem putting it on the shelf as something that is not legitimately from God.






Tradition: Hmmmmm…oftentimes tradition is screwed. Sometimes tradition is the antithesis of what is true. I am thinking of Girard’s theory about how religion legitimatized sacrifice and scapegoating. I am thinking of eternal torment and penal substitution which are both traditions. I am thinking of Catholicism and all it’s doctrines of demons and bondage. I am thinking of Spurgeon and Edwards and their vile spewings of what God has planned for sinners in hell. All of these things are so far removed from the simple theology of Jesus. Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Sums it up nicely huh? So tradition might enter the equation but I am more likely to judge it as the wrong way of looking at a thing.




Inner knowing: My friend Roy pointed out once that Jesus promised us when he left that the comforter would come and lead us into all truth. The Holy Spirit….the essence of God buried within each of us (in some of us it is buried very deeply, indeed) will lead us into all truth. "So let him do his job!", is my motto. I have been navigating the gentle breezes of inner knowing for as long as I have been a Christian….shunning penal substitution and ET long before I knew there were others who felt that way or that there was any scriptural support for them. Keith tells me I am “blown about by every weird doctrine that comes along.” Perhaps…but I am convinced I am traveling in the direction God wants me to go….with a few detours along the way….but he has a way of directing our steps back to the right path.







2 comments:

Anonymous said...

I hardly knew what post to comment on, being new to the site. I ran across the site when I was googling "blood sacrifice necessary" I think. This might be sort of long.
I thought I was alone in some of my thoughts or that they were a part of my struggle to free myself from an oppressive religion which took up my life from the age of 5 to about 47 or 48. But apparantly, not so much!
So many similar doubts and thoughts. I feel like I will never finish my quest for truth, and that is probably truer than I even think. Some people seem so comfortable in their doctrinal beliefs and never seem to question. I question and hope I am not making God upset with me. (I do think that is a part of my religious upbringing).
I could never witness to someone because I am too confused myself, and the Bible seems to indicate that confusion is not an option. We should be sure. I do seem to be "blown about" by different doctrines, but should I be if indeed the Holy Spirit is working in me?
Anyway, I will continue backing up and reading on your blogsite. I is refreshing, although I don't espouse the whole Univeralism concept. Guess it is because I hold more to the annhialationist viewpoint. That some will just utterly reject God and Jesus.
Anyway, I enjoy reading all the posts and have passed it on to others.

Cindi said...

anon said:
I hardly knew what post to comment on, being new to the site. I ran across the site when I was googling "blood sacrifice necessary" I think. This might be sort of long.

Cindi says:
I am so glad you stopped...and very glad you took the time to comment on my blog. Thank you for your kind words. You are definitely not alone in your thoughts about blood sacrifice, etc. I don't think it is just your attempts to free yourself from oppressive religion.


anon said:
So many similar doubts and thoughts. I feel like I will never finish my quest for truth, and that is probably truer than I even think. Some people seem so comfortable in their doctrinal beliefs and never seem to question. I question and hope I am not making God upset with me. (I do think that is a part of my religious upbringing).

Cindi says:
I am quite sure that God is not upset with you...and in fact, I think he is leading you closer to his heart when he spurs you on to ask these hard questions. You are right. So many people are happy with the status quo. Sometimes I think it is fear, other times I think it is laziness. Much easier to just believe what the preacher tells you to believe. I think the holy spirit is leading you into all truth...just like Jesus promised. It may seem confusing while it is going on...but he knows what he's doing.


anon:
Anyway, I will continue backing up and reading on your blogsite. I is refreshing, although I don't espouse the whole Univeralism concept. Guess it is because I hold more to the annhialationist viewpoint. That some will just utterly reject God and Jesus.
Anyway, I enjoy reading all the posts and have passed it on to others.


Cindi:
Please do keep coming back. And thanks again for the comments. When someone takes the time to let me know they have been blessed by reading here, it makes me feel like what I am doing is worthwhile. Thanks again.

Cindi......